Career Pathways: Navigating Public vs. Private Sectors
Summary
In this episode of FEDtalk, host Jason Briefel interviews Helene Bumbalo, the Associate Director of Graduate Professional Development at the Virginia Commonwealth University (VCU) School of Business, about career counseling in 2024. Helene shares her unconventional career path and emphasizes the importance of staying flexible and open to new opportunities. She discusses the diverse student population at VCU and the unique challenges they face in navigating the job market. Helene also highlights the changing landscape of job applications, with the increasing use of artificial intelligence and the need for proactive networking before applying. She explores the differences between pursuing opportunities in the public and private sectors and shares innovative approaches to connecting students with federal agencies. She emphasizes the importance of bringing real-life professionals into the classroom to expose students to different career paths. Bumbalo also highlights the value of programs like the Federal Advisor Certificate Program, which prepares career counselors to help students navigate the federal hiring process. She encourages hiring managers to reach out to career programs and utilize alumni connections to find talent. Bumbalo advises job seekers to seek help from career counselors and utilize resources like LinkedIn to navigate the changing employment landscape.
Takeaways
Staying flexible and open to new opportunities is crucial for a robust career.
Diverse student populations require tailored career counseling approaches.
Job applications are changing with the increasing use of artificial intelligence, and proactive networking is becoming more important to make connections inside organizations before applying.
Pursuing opportunities in the public and private sectors requires different strategies.
Innovative approaches, such as hosting panels and connecting students with federal agencies, can help students explore career options. Bringing professionals from various fields into the classroom can expose students to different career paths and help them understand how their skills can be applied in different sectors.
Programs like the Federal Advisor Certificate Program from the Partnership for Public Service can provide valuable knowledge and resources for career counselors, critical to helping students and graduates interested in pursuing a career in the federal government.
Hiring managers can benefit from reaching out to career programs and utilizing alumni connections to find talented individuals.
Job seekers should seek help from career counselors and utilize resources like LinkedIn to navigate the changing employment landscape.
Chapters
00:00Introduction and Background
01:00Exploring Career Counseling and the Job Market
07:42Working with Diverse Student Populations
13:20The Changing Landscape of Job Applications
22:30Innovative Approaches to Connecting Students with Federal Agencies
25:36Exploring Career Paths: Public vs. Private Sector
27:08Navigating the Federal Hiring Process
29:40Utilizing Alumni Connections for Talent Acquisition
31:06Internship Opportunities in the Federal Government
35:42Building Relationships with Universities
38:09Adapting to the Changing Employment Landscape
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Jason Briefel (00:04.317)
Hello and welcome to Fed Talk. My name is Jason Briefel, your host from Shaw, Bransford and Roth. And this episode of Fed Talk, we are diving into the world of career counseling. And I am really pleased to have Helene Bumbalo. She is the Associate Director of Graduate Professional Development at the Virginia Commonwealth University, VCU School of Business. Helene, thanks so much for joining us.
Helene Bumbalo (00:10.671)
Thank you.
Helene Bumbalo (00:31.279)
Thank you so much, Jason, for having me. I'm happy to be here.
Jason Briefel (00:34.173)
Well, I think that this is going to be a really interesting conversation. We've been hearing all about workforce, workforce, workforce, workforce here in the federal government. You know, there's a lot going on in our economy. And so I'm really interested in our conversation with you today to find out, you know, what you're seeing on the ground, what's happening with students, what the differences might be between the public and private sectors.
as people are looking there. But let's just start with you, Helene, and get to know you a little bit better. So you're a career advisor at VCU in Richmond, Virginia. How did you end up in this line of work?
Helene Bumbalo (01:14.319)
I have a crooked career path. Began many years ago with a master's degree in counseling. I always thought that I'd hold a shingle one day and be a psychotherapist. I worked with companies that were, we had mergers, we had acquisitions, and it was during a time when businesses were changing, loyalty, changing the way they did business.
Although I thought I had a career path, life got in the way. And what I learned from that is that the best way to have a robust career when you're my age is to stay very, very flexible. And I was able to do that. And after about 20 years in actually healthcare management, I decided healthcare wasn't where I wanted to stay. And using techniques that I use today with students, I sort of looked at myself to understand
What did I really enjoy doing about my work? How could I leverage those skills and talents really and do it differently? And I ended up discovering a job title that was called a learning consultant, which we didn't have at the East Coast at the time. It was a West Coast term. But when I read the job description, I thought, man, that's what I want to do. I want to help people crystallize their thinking and understand where their goals are.
help them develop a strategy to get there. And I recognized that in my background in physical rehabilitation, which is where I was in healthcare, there were similarities. So I recognized those similarities as transferable skills. And eventually by no longer saying, I'm looking for a job and giving a job title, I started talking to my network saying, I'd like to use these skills and I'm not really sure how.
and listened for the advice of those people around me. And someone suggested, you should talk to and gave me some connections and they gave me some connections. And someone hired me as a career coach. And up to that point, Jason, I thought a career coach was that person in high school who told you what college to go to, right? But I didn't realize that doing what I'm doing now is really helping people.
Helene Bumbalo (03:35.343)
crystallize their thinking about their end goals and help them understand what barriers they have between where they are and where they want to go and build a strategy to overcome the barriers. And then I get to celebrate with them at the end when they reach their goals. So it's turned into a really perfect line of work for me. And I was in the private sector in a Fortune 200 bank for eight, nine years. And then I actually
took a pause and I moved abroad. I lived in Istanbul where I taught business English and aviation English and that was different. And when I came back to the United States, this was about 2013, I was looking for that kind of work with internationals. And then my adult children moved back to Richmond and started having families. And so I thought I needed to come back here. So took out that capacity to
Jason Briefel (04:09.789)
Okay.
Helene Bumbalo (04:32.271)
work with individuals in career coaching because that was more transferable here. And again, through networking, was able to do some adjunct faculty work. And from that, I was able to get this role here at VCU in School of Business. Long story, but it's, I think it exemplifies the way anyone can use self -reflection, understanding what am I?
good at today, being curious about how do I use what I'm good at, and finding a space. And that's what I teach my students.
Jason Briefel (05:08.192)
Yeah. No, I love that. Thank you for sharing that story. And it is really interesting because the shift that it sounds like you made personally in your own journey almost sounds like the discussion that we are having around the pivot from, you know, careers for life to skills based workforce management. And to your point, what can you do? What excites you? What makes you interested in learning?
Helene Bumbalo (05:34.799)
Yes.
Jason Briefel (05:35.261)
and lean into those things because those may be more portable, but they also may change. And I was one of those people, I could never answer the question, what am I gonna do five or 10 years from now? I always just wanted to be doing interesting work that felt like it had an impact and learning from smart people along the way.
Helene Bumbalo (05:40.527)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
Helene Bumbalo (05:52.751)
Yeah. Yes, being open to that experience, I think is the only way that we can really move forward in our careers today, a portfolio career, if you will, some way that you have, you know, taken a look at how do I match, again, as you said, my curiosity with what's there and to look at the horizon, people who feel that when they're completing a degree or their, you know, whether it's undergraduate or graduate degree, and they're looking for that one job.
are really selling themselves short because there is no one perfect job. I had the good fortune of having a mentor when I finished my undergraduate work. And she told me then, because I was Freddie and I had a degree in psychology and what am I going to do with psychology? Right. No one was going to hire me to be a psychologist. So what do you do? And she very clearly said, you need to look at everything you do as an interim job and you go to it. You learn what you can.
You understand more about yourself, you understand what's transferable, you get more of that on your plate in the next role, and you keep looking at each opportunity as an interim. And that's really, I think, what allowed me to be resilient when I had disappointments, when I had mergers, when my job just would go away, when funding was gone. And they, you know, suddenly told me, you've got 30 days left or whatever it was.
Jason Briefel (07:15.549)
Yeah, I think that's an important point. If you create this mental image of the only one and perfect job, if that doesn't exist or you can't get it, it can be very demoralizing and frustrating. Well, you know, you mentioned you're in Richmond, which was just highlighted by CNN as one of the top capital cities for people to check out. I know it well, as I went to the University of Richmond as well across town.
Helene Bumbalo (07:20.655)
Yeah.
Helene Bumbalo (07:30.063)
Mm -hmm.
A great place.
Yep, yep, I agree.
Helene Bumbalo (07:41.903)
Mm -hmm.
Jason Briefel (07:42.013)
So, you know, help us understand the population of students at VCU, but also that you're specifically working with, because I would imagine that your interactions in the business school might look different than your other career counselor colleagues. So I'm kind of curious about the student population that you're working with. And then also, like, how do you work with others across the school who are in your peers?
Helene Bumbalo (07:59.151)
Yes.
Helene Bumbalo (08:07.567)
Thank you, yes. The thing that really draws me here and I think is really fulfilling at VCU is the diversity of our student population. We don't have classrooms full of your typical student who maybe is here, maybe mom and dad are helping them pay for it, maybe they're 18, 19 years old and they finish in four years. Many, many of our students are working full time.
They're also going to school, sometimes full time, which is a real hat trick. We see students who are here on the Roam Nickel. We have a lot of first gen students, both at undergraduate and graduate levels. And we see students in a classroom for the most part that are here because they want to learn, not necessarily because this is the next thing they're supposed to do. So I think that gives us a unique group of students. However,
there's still that bewilderment about, well, how does this translate into the real world of work? Maybe they've been a barista, or they've maybe been a waiter, or maybe they've been a mechanic. And now they're trying to see, if I get an advanced degree, an undergraduate degree or a graduate degree, how do I leverage that? Some of our students don't have the social support or network that can help them understand that. And I think that is one of the roles that
the career coaches and the career faculty have because we are able to help them expand their view and see possibilities that they don't even know are there. In the School of Business, our students are required to take a one credit career course before they can graduate and that exposes them in a five -week period to required
connections to people who are doing things they might be interested in. It's a very interactive program. They don't just sit there and take information and it's very, very experiential. We also have a great emphasis here on internships and we eventually would like to have it be a requirement. We're not there yet, but we do have very strong advocacy that our students become interns someplace into that end.
Helene Bumbalo (10:33.839)
we now have funding that can support students who in the past, because they needed to work at Starbucks or they needed to work at a tire factory or tire store, that we can now support them with internship funding. And across the campus, they can apply for funds so that they can get maybe childcare or maybe housing allowance or maybe transportation to where they need to go because they...
ordinarily wouldn't be able to afford internships. We feel it's that important, that experiential learning is that important. Across the campus, there are three career centers. The main one, or central, has pretty much everybody except the School of Business and the School of Engineering. These two schools, we have our own. So I'm here as part of the Business Career Services.
connected to the School of Engineering building, literally. And so over there, we have another group of internal support staff. But across campus, we do have interactions with our other career coaches. We try to share resources. And in fact, last week, we actually had a Virginia Career Professionals Day that my manager, Dr.
Katie Beth Lee, I got an idea conceptualized and then put into practice. And we had about 50 career professionals from across the local area. So yes, University of Richmond, we had four or five people from there. We had people from Virginia Union, Virginia State. We had people from our campus and so forth.
But we all got together and we had a wonderful panel of employers answering the question, what did they want us to know? And then we did some activity in the afternoon with design thinking where we approached some problems that we all face trying to create and share solutions that we could help each other with. So it was a great day actually.
Jason Briefel (12:34.237)
Yeah.
Jason Briefel (12:50.973)
That's really great both to hear that you all are sharing and learning and you know, as we started off the program, this is a really interesting time in our economy and where we have almost near employment, but technology is really changing things and we're told, you know, 50 to 70 % of jobs that people will have in a decade don't even exist today. And so both for students showing them what is possible, getting them experiences in those areas and not just hearing about them.
Helene Bumbalo (12:55.759)
Yeah.
Helene Bumbalo (13:00.815)
Yes.
Helene Bumbalo (13:11.023)
That's right.
Helene Bumbalo (13:18.063)
Mm -hmm.
Jason Briefel (13:20.989)
but then also for you all, like how do we connect the dots with those students and their employers? And so I think it's a perfect segue into, you know, obviously we here at FedTalk are really focused on the government, but I want to start up a tier kind of just as you're helping students understand all of the options, public sector, private sector, you know, what does that look like? How are you bringing people to those opportunities?
Helene Bumbalo (13:28.271)
Yes.
Helene Bumbalo (13:35.631)
Yes.
Jason Briefel (13:50.205)
and is the way that people find out about and pursue opportunities similar or different in those two sectors.
Helene Bumbalo (13:58.479)
I've been here in this role for about three and a half years and I've seen a change just in that amount of time and probably in the last eight and 12 months. Certainly we've all been aware of artificial intelligence and it's been a part of hiring process for a long time, applicant tracking systems. And yet in the last year with two things happening, the advent of greater AI application and
The second part being the tech changes and we've seen downsizing in many big tech companies across the country. So we're seeing a greater need to help individuals understand that we can't, cannot apply tactics that may have even worked two years ago in today's work environment. It is across the board, a greater challenge.
Jason Briefel (14:37.085)
Okay.
Jason Briefel (14:50.909)
Interesting.
Helene Bumbalo (14:57.807)
Maybe there were 200 applicants for a job and maybe there's now 2000 applicants for a job. And we see in the private sector individuals who are using ChatGPT to help them try to beat ATS, applicant tracking systems. And they're doing that by individualizing their resumes to actually match job keywords in a job description.
Jason Briefel (15:25.853)
Interesting.
Helene Bumbalo (15:27.375)
But we're then seeing companies having a real interface between their applicant tracking systems and these needs where they're eliminating people in different ways than they had before. Maybe because they just have to hone this huge list down. They can't possibly review. Yeah.
Jason Briefel (15:52.989)
Right, how do you process 2 ,000 applications for a job? Fairly.
Helene Bumbalo (15:56.303)
And so we have to be using AI in some ways. And so we're in some ways at a stalemate. And if someone is applying only in this manner by filling out applications, I consider it reactive. I see that job. I can do that job. I'm going to apply for that job. I see that job. I'm going to apply for that job. It's not going to get them.
Jason Briefel (16:24.381)
Feels like that's almost too late.
Helene Bumbalo (16:26.383)
It is too late. It is too late. There's a wonderful, he's my guru, I think many, many people who are in my field admire and that's Steve Dalton. And he's been talking for many years about the need to reverse this and to identify your target companies, identify who is working at my target companies, understanding how to network within so that you're learning.
You're not asking for a job of those target companies for those networking partners. You're learning the language, the culture, how they do things there so that when a job opens at that place, you've got more information about that employer. You have more understanding about what they really are looking for, how they operate, so that you can then individualize a cover letter. You can individualize your resume.
and have a better chance because you might even be happy enough, lucky enough to get a referral from that resource that you built a relationship with six months ago, a year ago, three months ago. This is how I'm seeing our students who are successfully getting jobs. This is what they're doing. They are identifying target companies. They are identifying who works in those similar roles, who works in that.
field or area division that I'm interested in, building relationships prior to seeing the job open. And then when a job opens up, hey, Joe, you know, I saw this, but Joe knows me by now. And we've got some communication already. And he's willing to let me use a referral link or let me use his name in a cover letter. And this is what's going to differentiate.
me and I'm no longer blindly, reactively applying to things. So in the private sector, that kind of networking is just crucial. The challenge then, well, here it is. Now it's not. And I reject that because I have students who will tell me, Helene, I'm spending hours a day. I'm filling up 10, 15 applications a day.
Jason Briefel (18:36.573)
That's very time intensive though.
Helene Bumbalo (18:52.463)
How much time is that? You're better off, it's better off not spending that designated job search time reactively applying, but proactively being curious about the companies, the segment, reading articles on LinkedIn about that segment or following thought leaders of that segment and reading,
Jason Briefel (18:54.461)
Yeah, it's a balance.
Helene Bumbalo (19:21.743)
their posts, seeing who follows them, who else are they following, using the time on social media such as LinkedIn. I'm not saying waste your time on Facebook or, you know, doing a TikTok video, but becoming engaged where thought leaders are engaging in conversations. That's where the time needs to be spent. And it is time intensive, but if you can spend 30 minutes a day on LinkedIn and you are
engaging and you know what your social score is and you know how to find that out and know how to participate in a conversation and be going where those guys go and being noticed by those thought leaders, then when you apply for a job, you're not a stranger.
Jason Briefel (20:11.645)
Yeah. So building that network is the worthwhile investment of time because it can be a differentiator because someone will know you hopefully when it comes to the other side. Yeah.
Helene Bumbalo (20:16.719)
Yes.
Helene Bumbalo (20:20.783)
Yeah, it's building some credibility. We know that employers are going to LinkedIn. So when my name comes up on a stack of referrals or my application comes up, if someone recognized, I've seen Helene, she's done this. I saw an article or I saw a comment that she made, or I noticed that we're in the same segments. Yeah, it's much better for me.
Jason Briefel (20:44.733)
Yeah. Well, and so let's talk about the public sector then, as typically having an inside person is not the way. We do need to get through those front doors typically.
Helene Bumbalo (20:49.935)
Yeah.
Helene Bumbalo (20:57.359)
and
I think so, and I think typically that is the way it's set up. I do see effort being made to do more on campus connections. We have some federal agency partners who come to our career fairs, who show up in person and, you know, will participate at tables. This is the way we're...
But you're right. I can't tell someone, you're interested in the federal agency? Okay, so now you're interested in, you know, supply chain with one of the federal agencies. I think you should just go to LinkedIn and find those people who are doing it, because that's not how it works. There's a conflict there. I'm telling my students, this is how to get employed, but I can't tell my students who are interested in federal employment.
the same strategy. It is different. In fact, I don't know in fact if it would be even seen as a real conflict if someone was to reach out to an individual who's in the federal government. Because it might be seen as maybe bias that they've gotten to know that person. I don't know how it works that well, but it's different. It certainly is different. So I think the
Jason Briefel (22:24.925)
Yeah.
Helene Bumbalo (22:30.703)
The channel is different. I think it demands more on the part of the agencies to find ways to open up channels. Because certainly, and I'll give you an example of something that we did here in the spring. There was, we have a, I work with the graduate students. I think, I don't think I said that, but I work with the, with the, any student getting a master's degree in the school of business.
and we have a large component here, a program in decision analytics. And one of our professors was doing some research and connected with colleagues at the, it wasn't the Bureau of Statistics, what was it? boy, now I'm gonna forget what it was. Now it was, the Census Bureau, Census Bureau, Census Bureau. And so they were doing some work together.
Jason Briefel (23:18.557)
BLS.
Jason Briefel (23:23.133)
Okay.
Helene Bumbalo (23:28.815)
invited a panel of decision analysts, data analysts, data scientists who were doing this work to come down to the campus. And we had, they had an afternoon, maybe a 90 minute presentation where they discussed the research and how they use decision analytics, data analytics with census bureau, which was pretty interesting. And we had students attend this program. Well,
We took advantage of that. These people were already here on our campus. We had, I think there were like six or seven scientists here. And so Dr. Lee and myself asked if they would be willing to then continue and stay on. And we had another hour, I think, with these experts. And we invited students to come listen to those same experts now speak from the lens of
what it's like to be a decision analyst, a data scientist with the federal government. And we had them as a panel. I interviewed them as a moderator, had questions that I had sent them, and we had a very interactive hour, it may have been longer than that, where students then came and filled the seats who were interested in working with the federal government.
Jason Briefel (24:35.101)
Yeah, very cool.
Helene Bumbalo (24:55.631)
And it wasn't necessarily the Census Bureau, but just what would I do if I was interested as a decision analytics student and wanted to work with the federal government? So we had a really interesting conversation with these data scientists. That's the kind of maybe innovation that is successful because those individuals, while there's no guarantee that they're going to help them, our students now had
Jason Briefel (25:17.405)
Yeah.
Helene Bumbalo (25:24.847)
not only names and faces, they were kind enough to give out business cards to say, yeah, if you've got any questions, you know, sure, reach out to me. And I do know that our students have done that. It was, they were able to visualize, they're able to see the day in the life of a decision analyst in the federal government. It made it real. It made it real for them. Those are the kinds of things that could be really helpful.
Jason Briefel (25:36.573)
Yeah.
Helene Bumbalo (25:54.063)
to get into a classroom. And yes, give us your science, give us your work. You've got a lot to teach us in your expertise and in your topics. Come and teach your topic to a couple of classes, whether it's mathematics or statistics or life science or humanities, whatever that might be, because we know that you're all involved in these things, some component in the federal government.
you know, a peace co -worker who could come and talk to a history class or a social worker, social studies class, whatever. But that puts your expertise in front of our students in a way that how else are we going to do this because they can't network the same way.
Jason Briefel (26:40.317)
Right. Yeah. No, I think that that's a really interesting point and that the dichotomy there is fascinating, but this, the government does offer roles for almost every profession under the sun in many different agencies and helping students crosswalk. You can use these skills in whatever way you want in a variety of different places by hearing real life people.
Helene Bumbalo (26:53.391)
Yes.
Jason Briefel (27:08.093)
This is how I'm using those skills. This is how I'm doing data analytics. That's really fascinating. I know that because we talked about in our prep call that you went through a program to help you understand all the weird wacky ins and outs, particularly of federal hiring. And this is a program run by the Partnership for Public Service called their Federal Advisor Certificate Program. Can you tell me...
Helene Bumbalo (27:08.399)
Yes.
Yes, yes.
Helene Bumbalo (27:20.399)
He did.
Yep. Yeah.
Helene Bumbalo (27:33.679)
Mm -hmm.
Jason Briefel (27:35.165)
more about that and how it helped prepare you to help folks who are interested in pursuing the public sector.
Helene Bumbalo (27:36.879)
Yes.
Helene Bumbalo (27:42.895)
Yes, it really did help. Like many, frankly, who are even my colleagues, the process seems overwhelming. The process of helping a student get into the federal government was overwhelming. And the Partnership for Public Service came up with this program. I believe I was actually, it was July of last year, I think it was the initial group, and went through the program.
Jason Briefel (28:11.069)
So, yeah, great.
Helene Bumbalo (28:12.751)
And it was intense. It was a lot of work for, I think, six weeks or whatever over the summer. But it was a well -designed program. They exposed all of us to examples of a day in the life, great videos, great training materials, and interacted with us, our assignments that we had to, you know,
create resume samples and so forth. So they really made us work as well. But the end result is that I have lessened my anxiety and fear around how to help a student. I have an entry point. I know how to get into this. I have an appreciation for the heroes that I believe work in the federal government.
I have a different ear so that when a student talks to me about what's important to them, and I've had graduate students say, I'm doing this program and getting my MBA, I'm getting my decisions analytics, I'm getting my supply chain because I don't feel I'm making a difference where I'm at. I hear those words, that says, this is someone who's got a different value of service. And I begin to approach that now where I wouldn't have before.
Jason Briefel (29:28.541)
Right.
Helene Bumbalo (29:40.495)
And I talked to him about it has, it has. And I can ask him about that commitment to service and open up the door. You know, we in the federal government need this. We, all of us in this country need leaders like you with a feeling for service, a belief and a desire. And so I'm able to now offer them
Jason Briefel (29:40.573)
You know, it's given you some ways to queue into that language.
Helene Bumbalo (30:09.743)
different ideas than I could have in the past, but I also feel comfortable showing them the pathways, literally the pathways program. Last year, there's been an internship portal that was stood up that I wouldn't have known about, but I get all the information now. And these kinds of opportunities, internships, experiential learning,
we know are successful, whether it's public or private sector, in showing someone what it's like getting people opportunities to work in that sector or that company. So yes, now that we have this portal for internships with the federal government, even things like the fellowships. So the Presidential Management Fellowship, I'm very pleased to say that in the last two years, we have two VCU
graduate alumni who both, yes, I know I'm very pleased and on September 4th, I'm gonna be delivering a webinar to our business students, graduate students, also to talk to them about being prepared and ready for the PMF application, which will come up in October. And so these kinds of opportunities are terrific ways, but I wouldn't have known about these honestly, had I not gone through this.
Jason Briefel (31:08.605)
Awesome, congratulations.
Helene Bumbalo (31:34.703)
excellent program that I went through last year and have encouraged other collegiate career coaches to pursue because it's that valuable.
Jason Briefel (31:43.197)
But it sounds like you've been able to bring that knowledge back to your team at VCU, back to other colleagues in the profession. So I'm curious, Helene, for our audience members out there, say we have some hiring managers, do you have any words that you would leave with folks who are thinking about hiring talent coming out of VCU and coming out of university?
Helene Bumbalo (31:49.391)
Yes.
Helene Bumbalo (32:00.975)
Mm -hmm.
Jason Briefel (32:12.381)
you know, what message would you leave with hiring managers who are looking for talent coming out of school, whether it's in terms of framing your opportunities, whether it is finding ways to get together, you know, what should they be doing or thinking about?
Helene Bumbalo (32:29.103)
I think if there's a position or positions that you're really maybe having some difficulty with, you know, reach out to the career programs, the career coaching programs or units in the schools. You know, one of the things that I found when we've had our career fairs is really successful if you know you've got someone on your team or on your staff or
You know, they've gone to University of Richmond, they've gone to Virginia Commonwealth University. Using that alumni at your table, even if it's just for that one day, would be helpful because they can say, yeah, when I was at VCU and I was doing this, that or the other. So using your alumni, finding out where your current employees went to school and see if you can use that as a pathway for you to get onto the campus.
Jason Briefel (33:12.701)
Yeah.
Helene Bumbalo (33:25.327)
Experiential, you can be getting into a classroom, offering to do mock interviews, not necessarily even just for your agency, but offer, raise your hand and say, when you are doing your course, your one credit embedded course for career management to your students, let me do a 30 minute, you can be in DC or you can be wherever, do a webinar, zoom into a classroom.
show those students your hiring interview techniques, offer to review resumes. But having that connection to the career professionals on campus, not just, I'm going to go to a career fair because why that might be the employment person, it might not be us who are in the classrooms with our students. But that would be
would be a way. I did actually write down a couple of things. Let me just go back and see what I wrote down.
Jason Briefel (34:29.469)
Yeah, no, I love it. I think that that's a really interesting idea. You know, if you don't sit around and what I heard was don't sit around and wait. If you have some time, if you want to give back in one way, if you want to get reconnected with your campus and the students there, they probably want to know what your life and your experience on the other side of the fence has been like. And, you know, I can think about my own relations with my university. Like I don't
Helene Bumbalo (34:42.287)
Yeah.
Jason Briefel (34:46.433)
Right.
Helene Bumbalo (34:53.391)
Yes.
Jason Briefel (34:58.141)
think that that outreach has ever come from the school. They're not going to say, hey, tell us if you want to come talk to students. You might need to take that initiative on your own. But if you're a hiring manager and you need talent, it doesn't cost you nothing but your time.
Helene Bumbalo (35:08.111)
Yeah.
Helene Bumbalo (35:14.927)
That's right. That's right. One of the things that we heard from this panel that I had last week of the employers and we did have a federation. We had Secret Service as one of our panelists, which was pretty interesting. But they talked about rather than just coming to career fairs to arrange to be there if you can, maybe the night before or the afternoon and having
a hospitality suite. Having a room on campus where informally before the career fair, you've opened up just to meet people, just to say hello, as you would if you were attending a conference. And I thought that that was really a good idea and could certainly be used by both public and private groups to do that.
Jason Briefel (35:45.597)
Yeah.
Jason Briefel (36:04.509)
Thank you.
Helene Bumbalo (36:09.903)
offering tours of your field offices? So we've got here in Richmond, there's field offices for many federal agencies and people think when they go to federal employment, they've got to live in DC. Well, as I understand it from my course that I took, my certification, 20 % of jobs for the federal government are in DC. That leads a lot of other places. So if you've got field offices, reach out from the field office.
Jason Briefel (36:17.981)
Yeah, you're right.
Helene Bumbalo (36:39.087)
And it was suggested that, you know, bring a busload of our students over to take a tour of your field office. Let us see what goes on in the day of so that students have a different perception and understanding of what it means to work for Federal Reserve Bank or, you know, Secret Service here. You know, all of these
organizations, many of your agencies and organizations have field offices in various areas. Let us see those. Let us students see those. So that was another idea.
Jason Briefel (37:11.101)
Yeah, no, I love that. Don't forget, don't forget that there could be folks right in your backyard just because the policy's function might be in DC. There's plenty of work to your point. 85 % of the federal government work force is out there all around the country. Yeah, very fascinating.
Helene Bumbalo (37:18.543)
Yes.
Helene Bumbalo (37:23.215)
Yeah. Yes, yes. Students are afraid, students were surprised when I told them that because they said, I don't want to move to DC. Well, you don't have to move to DC to work for the federal government. In fact, as you said, you know, majority are not in DC.
Jason Briefel (37:41.981)
Yeah, one, technology has certainly opened up opportunities too, especially for folks who do have those kind of in -demand skills around data, around AI, around some of these newer technologies. This has been a really fascinating discussion, Helene, just the differences between public and private, but also at the same time, the deluge that technology enables.
Helene Bumbalo (37:44.559)
That's right.
Helene Bumbalo (37:49.551)
Mm -hmm. Yes.
Helene Bumbalo (38:07.566)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yes.
Jason Briefel (38:09.501)
I remember those days of applying to 10 or 15 jobs a day. I guess I wanted to give you a chance, just as we're wrapping up our conversation here, it does feel like this is both a challenging but also kind of a dynamic employment marketplace. And so, are there any words that you would leave for folks who are thinking about their own?
Helene Bumbalo (38:15.823)
Yes.
Helene Bumbalo (38:20.367)
Mm -hmm.
Jason Briefel (38:38.301)
next step on their career path, but also if you're looking for people who are looking for their next step, kind of what does that intersection look like? Where are the seekers and those looking for workers coming together these days?
Helene Bumbalo (38:55.055)
Well, I think if I was to leave anyone with some advice, it's to recognize that doing something today with regards to employment is very different and
There's no shame in recognizing that you might need some help, that you might need to talk to somebody who this is what they do. And they help people sort through this pretty sticky territory. It's not easy. And that there are changes in our environment that you might not have.
Jason Briefel (39:33.981)
Yeah.
Helene Bumbalo (39:42.383)
understood or anticipated using something like LinkedIn, having a resume that is, you know, maybe not as pretty, but applicant tracking usable, that understanding that you shouldn't, that this isn't your job to understand this. Your job is to navigate it and you might need help to navigate it.
I've, I've talked to somebody the other day who told me he's finishing his masters in December. And he said, I'm hired of this employer. I'm ready to move on. And, you know, sent me his resume and it will never work, but he didn't know that he's been with that employer for seven years. He hasn't had to interview. He's gone through promotions where he was, but what he did seven years ago to get that job.
Jason Briefel (40:38.621)
Right.
Helene Bumbalo (40:42.031)
will never get him another job outside of his own company. And one of the biggest challenges that I have in my role is sort of validating with students, graduate students, adults, that it's okay that you don't really get this, but there are people who do and reach out to us, whether they're on your campus.
Jason Briefel (41:03.005)
Yeah.
Helene Bumbalo (41:09.775)
or whether you're hiring somebody or whether you're going to, you know, I have been teaching people how to use Chat BT to help them be their own career coaches by the kinds of questions that you ask chat to give you. You know, I mean, there's a lot that you can be doing and you don't have to do it alone. And maybe I guess I'm saying,
Jason Briefel (41:23.485)
Yeah, right.
Helene Bumbalo (41:37.839)
you shouldn't be doing it alone any more than I would try to do data analysis on my own. I don't know how to do that. And I wouldn't, I'm not ashamed of the fact that I have to ask a specialist, but in this career, in this career area, people still have the myth that they should know how to do this. Cause isn't this just getting a job? It's not just getting a job.
any longer. It's a specialty.
Jason Briefel (42:12.349)
Yeah, no, I really think that that is really good advice, Helene. It's don't go it alone. You know, whether it's a collegiate career counselor, whether it is some of these technology tools, whether it's other friends and colleagues, you know, you need someone to give you an objective look and to give you some feedback. And
Helene Bumbalo (42:19.951)
Yeah.
Helene Bumbalo (42:27.535)
you
Yes.
Helene Bumbalo (42:36.687)
Yeah.
Jason Briefel (42:39.453)
Those contacts and connections also can hopefully keep your morale up when you inevitably get those rejection letters and disappointments along the way. So bringing a friend along with you to keep you in the fight and helping you articulate what it is you want to do, what skills you have, how you want to use them and the kind of impact that you're trying to have in the world. I think you're right that especially if you have been an adult at a place for a long time, you know.
Helene Bumbalo (42:44.783)
Yes. Yes.
Yes.
Helene Bumbalo (42:58.479)
Yes.
Helene Bumbalo (43:02.991)
Yes.
Jason Briefel (43:09.437)
you need to be able to articulate what might be different and where you're going. And career counselors like yourself really can help folks do that. And I know that for alumni, a lot of times you can tap into those resources even many, many years after you've left.
Helene Bumbalo (43:14.671)
Mm -hmm.
Helene Bumbalo (43:18.287)
Yeah.
Helene Bumbalo (43:23.407)
That's right. That's right. Here at the School of Business, they get us forever. So whether you're an undergraduate or a graduate, I've had recently a student who graduated in 1997, and I had a master's level student who graduated in 2003. And here...
you still have access to career services. So I don't know if that's true for all universities, but I certainly would investigate what's available through your alumni program.
Jason Briefel (43:53.469)
Yeah, very cool. Well, Helene Bumlao, Associate Director for Graduate Professional Development at the VCU School of Business. Thank you so much for being with us. I know I learned a lot about everything that is going on in your world. I know this must be a challenging role, but it sounds like fulfilling when you can help folks get to the other end. Thanks so much for your time here on Fed Talk. That's all the time we've got.
Helene Bumbalo (44:14.639)
I love it.
Jason Briefel (44:21.949)
Fed Talk is brought to you by the Federal Employment Law Firm, Shaw Bransford & Roth. Give us a like and review online and hope you have a great rest of your day. Cheers.
